Climbing in Heels Podcast
Health and Happiness Journey
Lisa Odenweller, Founder & CEO of Kroma Wellness, on Her Journey of Health and Happiness and How Food Can Be Medicine
Podcast Summary
Original air date: January 19, 2024
Rachel Zoe is known as one of Hollywood’s most powerful fashion authorities. She welcomed audiences into her fast paced life as an A-list stylist on her hit Bravo show, “The Rachel Zoe Project” and her renowned fashion brand is known globally. Her podcast, Climbing In Heels, is all about celebrating the stories of extraordinary women.
This week, Rachel Zoe speaks with the wonderful and inspiring founder of Kroma wellness, Lisa Odenweller. Lisa has a longstanding passion for health and nutrition which originated with her superfood cafes, Beaming.
Her new venture in Kroma is reaching and helping even more people to improve what they are putting into their bodies. They have really figured out how to make healthy taste amazing and her story as a single working mom is the best example of hard work and being willing to pivot.
Transcript
Rachel Zoe (RZ): Wellness lovers, I have curated a set to make checking off all your new year's goals a little more luxurious. Our super limited edition gold set just launched and I made sure to fill it with coveted brands across categories like fitness, nutrition, and self-care.
All for 60% off the retail value. So if you want to level up with beloved products, some of my personal favorites by P-Volv, Olaplex, Intelligence of Nature, and more for a better, brighter you in 2024, head to curateur.com. That's C-U-R-A-T-E-U-R.com now. Be one of the first to order and I'll add on a free gift. Hi everyone. I'm Rachel Zoe, and you're listening to Climbing in Heels.
This show is all about celebrating the most extraordinary superwomen who will be sharing their incredible journeys to the top, all while staying glamorous. This week, I'm so excited to chat with the wonderful and inspiring founder of Kroma Wellness, Lisa Odenweller. Lisa has a long-standing passion for health and nutrition, which originated with her superfood cafes Beaming. You probably know them.
Her new venture in Kroma is reaching and helping even more people to improve what they're putting into their bodies. They've truly figured out how to make healthy taste amazing. And her story as a single working mom is probably one of the best examples of hard work and being willing to pivot.
I'm very happy to have you on. So I only know a little bit about your story and I think it's such a great story and I want to hear more and I want you to share a bit with my listeners because the thing that I get the most often is, and in fact, this morning, I was doing an interview with a woman who is 57, very accomplished. And she has decided that after years of being in like biotech and finance and all this stuff, she wants to live out her dream of being a stylist.
And I'm like, wow. Okay. Let's talk about that.
And so I love to hear the stories because there's so much grit. There are so many challenges. There's so much fear.
I think for every woman that wants to be a CEO, there's 10 that don't because of the fear involved in the triumphs and the wins and the losses and failures and all the things. But I want to hear a little bit first, how your story began? Where did you grow up?
Who were you? What did you want to do? What were the dreams?
And is what you're doing now anything closer to your path?
Lisa Odenweller (LO):
Yeah. I love that question because I think any of us that as creators, when we look back, there were pebbles along the way that led us to where we ended up.
And sometimes the pebbles had a little nudge. Sometimes they were hit over the head. And in one moment you're like, oh, that's it.
RZ: Sometimes they were thrown at you.
LO: Thrown at you and you had no choice. And there's a lot of things that happen along the way, but there's something usually, there's catalysts on the way.
And if I think back to my childhood and growing up in a really healthy family where we had no junk food, my parents-
RZ: Oh, healthy literally. Not just, a loving family, in, like, the healthy family. But literally healthy. Where'd you grow up?
LO: I grew up in Colorado Springs.
RZ: Got it.
My dad, my stepdad, my grandfather were all in the Air Force.
RZ: Got it.
LO: And so very wholesome, but also just really, really healthy. Before healthy was a thing.
RZ: Right.
LO: Because you mentioned age earlier, I'm about to turn 53. So this is way back before- It was cool to be healthy.
Which was cool. And it was the day of Twinkies and Ding Dongs and Fruit Loops, which are still around.
RZ: My kids, it's like their eyes light up.
My friend mom was eating Apple Jacks and I'm like-
LO: Still around. Oh my God.
RZ: Yeah, they are. Yeah, they are. They really are.
LO: Lots of snakes in the whole thing.
We didn't have them at my house. So we were sort of the lame family. And so if you wanted junk food, you had to go to a friend's house.
RZ: Totally. Same.
LO: And then, but my parents exercised every day.
And then I always love to share my grandfather who passed at 95, but he was so vibrant and so strong. And so I grew up watching not only my parents, but my grandparents exercising every day. My grandfather, up until the age of 90, was doing a thousand pushups and sit ups a day.
Crazy.
RZ: Wow.
LO: I mean, and he used to joke that he moved into an older person's home and he said, I'm probably going to die in the stairwell because I'm the only person that actually takes the stairs and no one's going to find me. And so it was just sort of ingrained in me from the beginning to make health a priority.
RZ: Interesting.
LO: I didn't-
RZ: Because you could have gone the other way. Like very often, my sister and I, my family, they wouldn't let us, they had some junk, but very little, definitely the least of all of our friends. So when I slept at a friend's house, it was like the floodgates opened.
It was like every sugar cereal, every Twinkie, as you said, the whole thing, because I couldn't have it. So it's amazing that it actually made you want, it inspired you to stay that way.
LO: So funny that you say that.
So yes, there's a rebellious aspect to it that my 20-year-old and 18-year-old boys are rebellious to their very healthy mother. And so they come home and with, you know, and I'm embarrassed to say this publicly, but they'll come home with their Chick-fil-A and their McDonald's. And I'm like, God, I want to die.
And I'm like, please don't let anyone see that you're doing that. And so there is a rebellious aspect.
RZ: You're like sprinkling Kroma on top of the McDonald's.
LO: Although now, because of TikTok, they're like, Mom, I want to watch Ashwaganda. I want to take Lion's Mane. And I was like, I knew at some point this would work.
Like at some point, everybody would still trade in. And now they're taking like Colostrum and I'm putting them there because it's also becoming cool, but you can't force it. So back to your point.
For me, there was something underlying in why I think I didn't go rebellious, which was as a little girl, I always had this sense of wanting to feel empowered with my health, which is sort of a funny thing to say as an adult. Why as a little girl did I? And for me, it was a fear.
It was, I didn't want to go to the doctor and get bad news.
RZ: It's a valid fear.
LO: It was a fear.
And I think we all, to some extent, have that fear. And I didn't understand what to do with it, but I knew I had this conscious idea of I want to be healthy. I want to take care of my body, even since I was little.
That's amazing, by the way. Which is amazing. I think that was just DNA.
I don't know what it was. Because it wasn't like we were having those conversations at home outside of the lifestyle of it. But now it took me until I was 40 to actually make wellness my life mission.
And so as a young girl, I wanted to be a movie star. I wanted to be a veterinarian.
RZ: Well, that's what I was going to ask you.
Did you go to college? Were you working since you were a teen? What was the path to get to here?
LO: So I'm told that I was very driven. I might still have the records for most push-ups and sit-ups and pull-ups at the grade school, elementary school. Ten years ago, I still had the record.
So I think there was always this side of just being very driven. My parents said that I never liked the word no. And so I would always find a way to yes.
Very entrepreneurial characteristics, even if we didn't understand it at the time.
RZ: No, definitely had no idea. But that's what my dad said.
LO: That's a powerful one too. Because for me, no has always meant let me find a different way.
RZ: Same.
Let me figure out how to make this a yes. I can't really accept no.
LO: Yeah.
Especially if it's like, no, this is supposed to be a yes. We're going to get to a yes somehow, some way. And I think those are things that are just...
There's certain ones of us that are literally born with that. And there's a skill in that. It's more than manipulation, but it's actually intention.
It's like belief is so strong that you see something that maybe somebody else doesn't, and you've got to figure out a way to get everybody there.
RZ: Yeah. It's the challenge, I think.
It's the challenge of I believe in this so heavily that I'm going to tell you why this is a yes.
LO: So then growing up in Colorado Springs, then I went to live with my dad in high school because he lived in Scottsdale. And I thought Scottsdale was a lot more happening than Colorado Springs.
And it was.
RZ: Was it?
LO: Okay. Very much so. I've always been more of that city girl, good food.
RZ: Culture.
LO: Culture. And so that led me then to end up going to school in Dallas at SMU for a year and a half when it wasn't a popular thing to do for the West Coast folks.
Now, everyone from the West Coast goes there, but at the time, I was one of the few people from the West Coast. I was a fish out of water. I thought I wanted to just marry a Southern boy.
And that's why I went there was so I should go to school in the South. Find a cute Southern boy.
RZ: And how did that go?
LO: Not so well. It didn't end up happening. Although I still met Southern boys with accents, but I never went away.
I just still haven't met him yet. But it was before I was really driven. I was super driven in high school.
I was the prom queen. All the things that were very driven.
RZ: Set you up for your future of who you're going to be.
LO: Wanted to be a leader. And then I went through this period of, I just want to go get married, which was my SMU stage. And that was sort of where I dipped out of this hard driving, accomplished thing.
And then I swung the other way and I left SMU after a year and a half. I did semester at sea, which best experience of my life being on a boat around the world with 400 people my age. Wow.
Then saw the world and got to see the world, the third world view of life because we weren't staying at the Four Seasons. We were on a boat.
RZ: The real world.
Right.
LO: Real world. And you're working in an orphanage in India or you're going on safari and being in the Serengeti with the Maasai tribe or getting to Japan and realizing you can't afford to stay in a hotel.
So you have to rent, this is embarrassing to say, but we'd have to rent a love hotel by the hour to get hours of sleep, which is our only thing we could afford.
RZ: Right.
LO: So by doing that-
RZ: Is that incredible?
LO: So cool.
RZ: Looking back, you're probably like, that changed the trajectory of my life and who I was.
LO: It completely changed it, which is why I mentioned it because it was the first time I really got to see the world from that lens and came to a point of really wanting to make a difference in the world.
And that was another one of those pebbles along the way. So then I transferred to Boulder. And when I got to Boulder, it was all about, now I'm so inspired.
Now I'm going to go change the world. I went back to Boulder and it's a really cool school. And I was a junior by that point, so I sort of missed the moment of party.
And now I was like, how am I going to go create a career and really make something of myself? And I remember my dad saying to me in college, the day I graduate, you're on your own financially. And there's no more cars, gas, health insurance.
And I was horrified and terrified, but also what are the best gifts? Because it made me so driven to make sure I could take care of myself. And so then I taught a business class.
I had multiple internships. I put myself out there to do what I was terrified of, and most of us are, was to speak. And it's such an interesting thing for me to reflect on now, because I would sign up to speak in front of 700 students.
Mind you, I'm 21 years old. And then these major executives in this really cool class that they did at the University of Colorado. And I was so scared of doing it.
I was so committed to figuring out how to become confident on stage.
RZ: It's the most important skill.
LO: It's so important.
And I think back to that now and how that has served me in my career because of having to break through that fear, being able to find a way to even be able to hold space on a stage or in front of a leader or a CEO or whatever that might be. And I think that really has served me in my career. Now, funny and ironically, my first job out of college was with Nestle selling chili and cheese sauce and country sauce gravy.
And the funny part is I thought I was going to be planning parties. I had no idea I was going to be driving a red van that was filled with like cans of unhealthy food, trying to get like prisons, hospitals, schools, and Marie Callender's to buy my food. I was horrified.
RZ: I'm dead. Yeah. But like, as you said, pebble.
It's a pebble.
LO: So I did, again, another pebble. So because I was so horrified that I was selling all this really unhealthy food, I decided that we had these products at Nestle, that there was sauces.
And I'm like, I'm going to create healthy food with these sauces. And I would stay up all night and I would create pasta salads and pasta sauces and salad dressings. And I created a cookbook.
And then I went and presented that to the top salad bar chain in the country because I wanted to sell products that were healthy. And I created a whole cookbook to make these products, you know, sellable. So again, funny thing along the way, because I still hadn't been hit over the head yet.
Like this is actually what we're going to go do. And it's funny too, like just to backtrack a little bit, in high school, I was the girl that was always making chocolate chip cookies for the football players, but I was making them healthy. And I was like, it's so weird.
Like how did that happen then? And I was like using applesauce and prunes, these poor football players. So I was like making these healthy chocolate chip cookies, mostly because I was eating all the batter.
And so I needed to like-
RZ: You're like, I'm so hungry. I mean, come on, everyone loves cookie dough. So I was like, I better figure out a way to make it healthier.
And then I would make smoothies and like, and put a bunch of healthy stuff in it, which that was way before like smoothies were a thing. I don't know, all of these things were just building. And then I always exercised my entire life.
And if anyone ever wants to laugh, I don't even know if you've seen this, you can go to my Instagram and see me jump roping, because I was the state jump roping champ in Colorado in third and fourth grade. And I can still do all the tricks. So if you want to laugh your ass off, go see as an adult, 52 year old woman.
RZ: That is really impressive, by the way.
LO: Very funny. 360s with my arm under my leg.
Oh no, no, this is real. This is not just like jumping rope. This is like, when I busted this out and nobody knew that I could do this, I mean, people died.
It was really funny. Because you don't expect someone to know you can do that. It's weird.
RZ: It's so impressive. It's so impressive. But you clearly have to do the like endorphin thing.
Like you actually need that. Do you remember when you said to me, oh, are you in New York? I have this amazing workout class.
And I'm like, yes, except I don't work out. That sounds so amazing. But like, do work out for me.
You're like, huh? Like what? Because it just, I dream about it.
I dream about having a regular cadence to it. It's another intention that I'm manifesting for 2024. That's my 2024.
I'm going to try the manifesting thing.
LO: I don’t think you manifest exercise.
RZ: I think I have to though. I have to manifest that I can get on this like regular schedule where I'm wanting and needing to exercise.
Can I manifest that? No.
LO: No, I don't think it's a manifestation.
I think you have to find something that you really like doing. I mean, for me-
RZ: I like yoga.
LO: Yeah. So if you like that, cause you're not going to do something that you don't like.
RZ: No, I'm a Virgo.
We don't do anything we don't like.
LO: This morning I did the Peloton and it's not because I love it, but I love how I feel. You're not going to do it.
RZ: No.
LO: So you have to do something that lights you up. I mean, for me and the class that I invited you to was going to Kristin Sudeikis’s class.
My favorite thing in the world is to dance. And so I go to her class and I can do it all day long. I mean, I think I have a dream of being in Dancing with the Stars someday.
Like that's, I could just dance all day if I actually could dance all day. So it's not, that to me is an exercise. That's play.
And that's what you have to find is play.
RZ: So I have a question. So along the way, guy, no guy, marriage, no marriage.
Cause you have two children.
LO: I have three children.
RZ: Three children.
I think you had two boys. So you have three children. All boys?
LO: My daughter, who's turning 26, who works for Kroma and is like my best, best, best friend.
And we have, probably my favorite thing about Kroma, outside of just the impact we've made is, and I love what we do and the things I get to do, but getting to work with my daughter. That's the dream. And she's been doing it—she’s been working with me since she was 13, when we started our last wellness company, Beaming.
RZ: Amazing.
LO: It's been really cool. So I, yes, I was married for 13 years and I'll give you kind of the uncensored version. We, I was 25, 26 living in San Francisco and he and I were, had been roommates.
And then we just started to date and we were new in dating and we got pregnant. And this was before Hollywood or anyone, you know, that made it a cool thing or even acceptable.
RZ: To have children before being married.
LO: Right.
Yeah. That was not, that was very, that was almost, it was not a good thing.
RZ: Yeah.
LO: And it was a, it was a moment of truth and certainly a life changing moment for both he and I, same smart, to make this decision that we're going to do this. And we were scared to death. We were dating. We’re 26, living in San Francisco.
No one was married, let alone having babies. And we did it. And you know, it sort of threw me into motherhood at a much younger age than I ever imagined.
You can say that if I was walking down the street and there was a stroller with a baby on a dog and a cat, I would pay a lot more attention to the dog and the cat than the baby. I was never the person that baby sat.
RZ: Sure.
LO: And so it wasn't like I was dreaming of babies and it just happened.
RZ: Listen, you're talking to someone who had, who did it as late as I possibly could, but yes.
LO: And that's what I thought my plan was.
And of course we laugh because you know—
RZ: We make plans and God laughs. Yes.
LO: So that was, that was one of the moments.
And, um, there's a lot more behind that story, but he and I moved forward with that. Um, obviously the best thing that ever happened to me on so many levels was having my daughter. And I think you can attest to this, like as a parent, there's nothing like becoming a parent to learn selflessness, to learn love on a level that you can't even imagine.
RZ: It's inhuman. It's, it's not, it's not human. It's like, I don't even, it's indescribable.
LO: It's indescribable and forgiveness, because you realize how hard parenting is.
RZ: And I think everything goes out the window. I'm pretty sure that everything you ever thought about how to handle anything or how to be, or how to like, you know, my schedule, my plan, my this, my, that it's like your love of your child so far exceeds any of that, that it all kind of just goes and you just start to navigate this just so differently.
You're just kind of like driving. You're like…
LO: And you're not perfect and you're making mistakes. And then you have forgiveness for your parents who maybe didn't show up.
And you're like, oh, now I get it.
Right?
And there's nothing like parenting and parenthood too. And I found a piece within me that I don't think I ever knew or understood in becoming a mother.
RZ: And certainly not at 26.
I mean, at 26, you're like living for yourself and your career and like, what do I need? How do I survive? How much money am I making?
Where am I living? Yeah. I mean, it's terrifying.
LO: My daughter's turning 26. And I was like, oh, I was that age?
RZ: Can you even imagine?
It's wild. I look at my niece now is 23. And I realized my sister had her around that age, like maybe like 25.
And I'm like at 25, I was like on the floor of my apartment crying. Like what's the next move of my life? How—my money and, you know, it's just like everything, everything is terrifying at 25.
LO: And then I guess it also goes to show in life, like we're pretty resilient. We can, we, we will, we will show up for whatever shows up for us.
RZ: Well, it's women for sure.
For women, especially. Yeah.
LO: I think my ex-husband.
RZ: Right.
They can, they can peace out whenever they want. Um, you know, I don't want to say all, I want to say generally speaking, you know.
LO: Well especially if it's not like in this particular case, neither one of us were mature enough to be in that place. I would like to say, I probably had a lot more maturity than he did.
But it became, you know, one of our biggest teachers and my biggest teacher. And I think through the 13 years of marriage, we did have two more kids. We divorced amicably.
And I reflect, he actually just got married, to his second wife about a couple of weeks ago. And I've always, for me, just I'm very introspective. So through the divorce, I really spent a lot of time thinking about, you know, what, what was my role in this?
Because we didn't fight, which wasn't necessarily a good thing. Because I think sometimes you need passion and sometimes that can be fighting, which is communication. Part of our problem was we didn't have enough passion and communication.
RZ: I think that's most people. I think that's the glitch in the system.
LO: Yeah. And we sort of were dead walking and—he’s a great guy in many ways. I don't think we were great together at the time, but we were so young, we didn't have the tools.
RZ: Sure.
LO: So fast forward, you know, I was a single mom.
RZ: Also terrifying.
LO: And which I think back to what I've done over the last 12 years since I've been single and starting two companies as a single mom, as a single woman. And this has been a very reflective year for me. We were talking earlier about 2024.
RZ: This has been a very reflective, very healing, but also honoring year for me. I really stopped to think back to what it was like for me with three little kids, no money and starting my last...
LO: Terrifying.
RZ: Terrifying. It's just terrifying. And you're alone and it's scary.
And you're responsible for these little humans and also responsible for yourself. And you have no one to lean on in those fearful moments. You know, you have your friends of course, and you know, family and whatever, but it's like, you don't have a partner.
LO: There's no one to give you a hug at the end of the day and say, how was your day?
RZ: Right.
LO: There's no one, there's no shoulder to cry on when you've had a bad day.
RZ: Or when the kids have had a bad day.
LO: Kids have had a bad day. Cause you've got to show up fully for them.
And there's no one to have dinner, like pick up dinner. It's all on you. And I don't think I gave myself enough acknowledgement and respect for how hard it was.
RZ: You wouldn't because in the moment it's survival, right? In the moment you're like, this is my life. I live for my children.
I'm working. I love my job, but my children, my children, my children, my children. And now I think you're an age and a point in your life and your children are grown where you're like, I I've done that.
Look at these amazing humans and look what I've built. And I cannot, in looking back, probably be like, how do I do this? I don't think I realized I was doing this moment, but that goes to my earlier point that women in general, and I think single moms, single working moms, is like, it's a whole other loaded job.
LO: You also carry guilt. And I think as parents we carry, and mothers really carry a lot, but the amount of guilt—I wrote about this on mother's day, I think this past year.
And I was thinking about all the, as mothers, we spend so much time, my kids were all leaving. So I was about to become an empty nester. And I went through this whole spin cycle of all the moments I missed because I had these very fast growing companies, which is wonderful and exciting, but with that came all the sacrifice of the football game I missed.
The soccer game I missed. The play that I missed. The moment that I didn't get on the floor and play Legos. I wanted to play Legos.
And I went through this period of time where I was in so much anxiousness around this guilt. And I thought, my God, what if I focus on all that I did do and how I've shown up.
RZ: Sure.
But your kids don't care. They're not like, Mom, you missed my school play. They're like, Mom, you're freaking awesome.
You're a fucking badass. Like I guarantee you that your kids think that. I guarantee you.
LO: And I can't say that they like—my daughter, yes.
Because we're besties—but my boys, it wasn't until I read their essays that they would come out and say how in awe they were of me or how proud they were of me or how much they've learned from me. And then you get that and you're like, okay, there's almost nothing better, right?
Like to know that even though I missed some of these things, they still felt loved. They saw how hard I was working for them and maybe they couldn't communicate that to me verbally, but in their essays for school or college or whatever, that's where it would come out.
And those are those moments as a parent…
RZ: Like, oh my God, I didn't fuck this up. Oh my God, I did something.
LO: Just to add to this too, because this was something that I learned and I think this is such an important thing as a parent, it's a little bit of a sidetrack, but one of the things that was really important to me with my kids, because we do fuck up and I would bring up to my kids and they would laugh at me. I would like, do you remember the time you asked me to play Legos and I didn't?
And they're looking at me like, no. And I'm like, well, I'm really sorry.
RZ: You were like repenting.
You were literally repenting.
LO: I'd be like having a dinner. I'd be like, okay guys, how do you think your childhood was?
My point is I've tried to create a space of open communication with my children so that they could come to me and say, you know, Mom, this really hurt me. And that we could talk about it and they knew that they were safe to do that. And so what that's also cultivated with us is they tell me everything.
Even when I don't want to see or hear, sex, anything.
RZ: That's the best. That's what you want.
LO: And I cherish that relationship with them.
RZ: That's my dream.
LO: I think part of it was just because of my own childhood and not feeling like I could talk to my parents.
RZ: Different generation. We couldn’t tell our parents anything.
Roger goes to hold my hand or kiss me in front of my parents. I'm like, my dad's here. No. It's just generational.
It's like a totally different thing. Our kids are our best friends now, but it's finding that line. And I think to your point, you know, I really do believe that the single mother thing not only helps to shape who you are, but it really shapes who they are.
And I think in particular your daughter, I think there's such, as we get older, I think this, and especially when you become a mother, you're like, how on God's given earth did my mom do that? How did my mom do that? I think how hard I struggle between the balance and never wanting to leave my kids and never wanting to miss anything, whatever.
And then I think about my sister, I'm like, how the hell she do this? How did she do this? Like literally.
And it's even dumb things like lifting, you know, my hundred pound suitcases when I travel and Roger will just come in, even in moments where I want to hit him with a frying pan, because I'm mad at him, he'll still schlep my stuff. You know what I mean? And I'll be like, Pamela, who shuts your stuff?
She's like, I schlep my stuff. You know? But I do think that makes you even better and more of a badass. And I think that's the thing. You're not reliant on people in that way.
But I am curious now as you've started Kroma, so Koma is how many years now? Three?
LO: We launched just over two years ago.
RZ: Two years. Okay.
LO: So I guess two and a half years.
So still new. I mean, it was a good four plus years in the making, five years in the making. Because when I left my last wellness company, Beaming, and I had created a group.
It was amazing. And it was the superfood cafes all over LA and San Diego. I grew it to a team, amazing brand, amazing food.
I mean, everyone loved it. I made some big entrepreneurial mistakes, including not having-
RZ: As we do.
LO: And some other, not having a strong lawyer and other things that ultimately cost me the company, which was really devastating, especially because, again, I'm a single mom.
I've taken the little bit of money I had in divorce. I've put it all into Beaming. Lost everything financially. And this is after-
RZ: And how old were your kids at this point?
LO: Well, I opened the first Beaming summer 2012. And so they were seven, eight, something like this, thirteen.
RZ: Pivotal.
Pivotal years.
LO: When I was building Beaming, and then when I lost it, I would say that was in 2017, or when I had to walk away. And that was tragic for me.
Also because I was so passionate and we were changing so many lives that I was like, no, no, no, this has to continue. Don't you see the good with what we're doing? But it was the best thing that ever happened to me, honestly, outside of having my kids, because it was incredibly humbling.
I had to go through... I went to Hoffman. I went through all the deep soul searching of how did I get here?
What's my role and accountability here? And how do I never end up here again? And it was my best teacher.
RZ: But in the moment, don't you just... I've had a moment like that and I will never forget it. Now I'm like, wow, did it help me become who I am?
And wow, did it open up ten more sets of eyes and ears than I ever had. And you realize that those giant mistakes are what push you forward. But in the moment, it's the most catastrophic, terrifying...
LO: It's horrible. So I think, and this is something that's just like, again, something goes back to my childhood, and I don't know why I was programmed this way. But I remember as a little girl in some different moments that were very painful.
And I had somehow the thought process at seven years old, thinking, I don't know why this is happening. This really hurts. But somehow in here, there's a gift.
RZ: There's a lesson. There's a gift. Yeah.
LO: I don't know why I had that wisdom at seven. And it's just-
RZ: Your parents.
LO: So through the part, going through what I went through with Beaming and divorce and all the other moments in life that are very challenging, I have always, even though it sucks horribly, I've always had this view of even if I don't understand why this is happening, I know that when I get on the other side, it's going to make sense.
And I know that when I get there, I am going to be a better person. There's better everything that waits for me on the other side.
RZ: There's a learning in it.
There's a learning in it. I try to tell people now, just after my experience is sort of like, this is so bad right now. And I'm not going to tell you that it's not.
And you have to accept and embrace and hold the bad. You just have to, because if you don't, it's going to fester and it's going to come out later. But know that it's happening for a reason.
And I believe that life makes decisions for you that you very often can't make for yourself.
LO: Well, I love that. Life isn't happening for you.
It's not happening to you. It's happening for you. And I think that being able, it also helps you when you're going through it to find the strength to get through it.
And there's not one time, and I don't think anybody would reflect on this, that can't look and just go, no matter how painful something was, there is a gift in it. If we're willing to see it and experience it for that. And I think that's been something that has been part of my lifeline through more difficult times.
And again, like I said, it's been a teacher because it helped me become losing Beaming also helped me become a better leader. It made me more investable because I had done something really amazing, but also had learned a lot of lessons that as people came in and got behind me for Kroma, that that actually became an asset. At first I thought I was a loser and I really, you know, second guessed everything about who I am.
RZ: As we do.
LO: Right. And, and then you were like, oh, quote the failure, was actually kind of a huge asset.
RZ: I also think like, it's funny and I go back to our G9 summit, but like, when you listen to a lot of these women talk and some of the people that I admire most, they've had countless failures.
I mean, it was funny. I think this year it was Bobby Brown. That's like, Oh yeah.
After I did Bobby Brown, I had three other things that I started. Haven't heard of them because they failed or, you know this one because this one's working, but like it didn't just... So I think everybody at the end of the day is human and no one is an overnight success.
And that is why I created Climbing in Heels because for this exact reason, everyone's path is hard. Some are harder than others, but everyone's is hard and no one's is the same.
LO: Yeah.
And it becomes our secret sauce too. Right. And I, as much as I wish Beaming still existed in the way that we had created it, I got to recreate something with just more…
I don't know if I can say more intention, but I've expressed myself in a new way through Kroma that still allows me to touch lives, but to do it in a way that I think is just more, I don't know, more relatable, more me, more a lot of things.
RZ: Well, Kroma is beautiful. It's beautiful and it's genius and it's chic. And, well, I add that because, you know, I think everything should be beautiful.
And I think everything that, especially when it comes to doing things for, for your body and for your health, that I think presentation and the way things look, make things more attractive in a way. Like it's sort of when Kroma arrives at your house, you're like, I know by looking at this, not only do I want it to sit on my counter, cause it's pretty, so if you live in a tiny apartment and you need space saving, it can sit on your counter because it's super pretty.
The whole setup and the whole thing and the wheel and that thing, the gold thing, the what do you call it? Yeah. The whole thing, but also, it's delicious and it's not perishable. Which, to me, is such a huge thing because as someone who's all over the place, and my life is so unpredictable and I never know from a Monday to Wednesday what's happening, where I'm going, what I'm eating, what I'm doing.
I just think the approach to Kroma and that sort of idea behind it, which I want you to speak about, is it's fresh, it's chic, it's easy, which again, you want the work done for you. I don't want to think about it. So I want to talk about Kroma and I also want to say, can't Kroma become Beaming?
Can't there be Kroma cafes? Can there be Kroma kiosks?
LO: I might have one more in me.
Well, I think there's a lot of possibilities and I think this is just the beginning for Kroma and I want to just acknowledge some of the things that you said in starting with just the box and in the presentation of that. And for me, health is something that, as a child, I wanted to feel empowered with my health. And my creations, both with Beaming and Kroma, have been about empowering people with their health and doing it in a way that feels like it feels sexy and approachable and beautiful and not scary. I want you to feel like I get to do this.
Like this is a gift to myself and that I want to, it's craveable, it's approachable, all those things. And so when I started Beaming 2012, the world was a very different—like era one was an era one, right? It was one era one, right?
There wasn't twelve. So we've come a long way and there's, you know, the products and the options and the things that we have now is amazing. We still have a long way to go for people really understanding the power that we have over our health.
And so for me, it's always been, how can I inspire people through food, help them understand how much power we have over our health, just by being more mindful of what we eat and drink, but do it in a way that, that feels like one, it's got to be easy because we're all too busy. We don't have time. I don't have time.
So I create products that I need for me. Right. And I hope that everybody else wants them too.
And they've got to be portable. It's got to fit this lifestyle that we live. That's very fast pace.
I think we're all well-intentioned, but, you know, people aren't going to spend the time, not only making the food or putting these concoctions that I do, but we need it to be easy. And I don't, I think that health, I didn't think it needs to taste amazing. So for me, function and flavor have to coexist.
RZ: Yes.
LO: And a mantra for me since both creations. And that's what we've been known for is making healthy taste amazing and something that the whole family actually wants.
And that's something that I think we do really, really well. And we'll continue to do that with all sorts of new products coming out and I can't wait to launch those.
And someday there might even be a big Kroma cafe.
RZ: So very exciting. I could see it.
I see it. I see you doing it.
LO: I see it.
RZ: I think, would this be a manifesting?
LO: At this moment?
RZ: Not, not today, but I'm saying that would be—I’m trying to do this manifesting for 2024.
LO: Yeah.
Well, I, I love…yes. And I'm one of those people actually on the manifesting thing. People are like, do you create vision boards?
How do you do it? I am one of those people that does exactly what we're doing now. You put it out in the universe.
You just say it. It will one, that like writes it in the journal and creates a vision board.
RZ: Someone told me yesterday I had to write it.
I'm like, why?
LO: No, but you, all you have to do is actually believe it can be. Right? And believe it can be true.
And I'll tell you, I freak the hell out of people out of things that will happen. Then I'll say something. And then the next day, that thing happened.
RZ: Same. For better or for worse, by the way.
LO: So, and yeah, that’s true.
RZ: Sometimes I say things and it's not the best thing and then it happens. And Roger looks at me, he's like, you're literally a witch. Stop.
Stop. Stop saying that. Stop putting it in the universe.
LO: Let's not say the negative things.
RZ: Right. Exactly.
LO: I don't say things that are weird. Like next year I want to be a billionaire.
RZ: Sorry, but that's dumb.
LO: It's more things that are like—even this was true for when I was raising money for Kroma.
This is a great picture to put. It's 2020. I have not a dollar to my name because I've lost Beaming.
I haven't rebuilt. I'm now trying to put a new company out into the world.
RZ: Three children. Cool.
LO: I literally have no money and I've emptied my 401k. I'm trying to raise money at a time where people are trying to figure out how to get toilet paper and food.
RZ: Truth.
LO: And I am trying to ask people for money. And through that period of time, what I had to do is I had to really put my manifesting on.
And what I envisioned was, what are the kind of people I want to surround myself with? And what I started with was, what if I could raise money from a group of really amazing women who would, whether it's the celebrities or it's the powerful business woman or the mom in the community, but they would be so excited about what we're doing that they would want to help me tell the world. And so the manifestation I did started with that and this idea that I could bring together a group of amazing people that would want to support me and the vision for Kroma.
Then I got really specific.
RZ: Which you did.
LO: Which I did.
And so we have 500 female investors. Which is so cool.
RZ: It's so incredible.
LO: It's so cool. And it's been such a big part, not only in the success of Kroma because everyone, the people that have gotten behind me and there's some great men too. All of them have been not only champions in helping us tell the world, but I know that I could call upon any one of them if I needed to talk about something or I needed help with something or support with something.
And that was the vision. It was not just people of influence. It was people that would really stand behind me and want to help us be successful and believed in what we were doing in our mission.
RZ: And that's the most valuable in my opinion.
LO: Being very clear about that intention is what allowed—because almost none of the people that ended up investing in Kroma, I did not know. I didn't know Amy Griffin. I didn't personally know Gwyneth or Naomi Watts or any of the others that got behind me along the way.
Candice Nelson, Greg Wentworth, I didn't know any of these amazing women. And the fact that they got behind me is something I don't take lightly and I'm always in tremendous gratitude. And it's made this fun because it's just this theme, the power of women coming together.
Is something that I just, I am so grateful to be part of that energy and sitting here with you and having this conversation and what we can do together.
RZ: I think, listen, I think, you know, and I speak about this a lot because I'm not really shy about the fact that I was not supported by women coming up in my life and in my career. Not personally, not professionally.
Guys were super nice. Women were not…as a rule, and it was hard. And it was really hard because I would look at women who would pretend to be nice to me. And I would just think, I know you don't want me to win.
I know that you don't—you’re not rooting for me at all. And so it was a huge catalyst for why I started climbing in heels because I said, I'm not that girl. I'm actually the opposite.
And I have such an incredible appreciation for the women that do support me and the women that do show up for me. And I show up for my friends. And it's the thing that I hear the most from the women in my life is how I show up for them.
Because I understand that that is literally the most important thing we do as girlfriends or even just new friends, even just anyone saying, “Hey, I love what you're doing. Like, I love what you're doing. Let's talk about it.
Let's figure out like what's next. Let's figure out how we can work together. Let's figure out how I can promote you.
Let's figure that out.” And, you know, I think that we've built such a community of women in so many different businesses, but I think collectively, none of us compete with each other. I think we all just root for each other.
And that is a new thing for me in my life. And since I've started in business, since I've started with having funds and things like that, and I think it just makes a huge difference. And to your point, I think feeling supported is worth everything, whether it's financially, whether it's emotionally, whether it's personally, whatever that looks like, because I think as women and working women and single moms and all the things, there are those moments of isolation and feeling alone.
And I think when you don't, it's life-changing.
LO: Beautifully said. And I want to also just acknowledge and honor that for you, because my experience with you, and I think about you and meeting you this summer, really, it was so instantaneous with you.
And I felt so supported by you. You're like, why am I not part of Kroma?
RZ: I'm like, this is awesome.
And I laugh at myself because I said to you, I'm not someone that drinks these things.
LO: You were so cute about it. And then, and ever since then, I just always felt so supported.
So everything that you're saying I've experienced firsthand, and even though you and I don't necessarily get a lot of girl time together, I know if I reached out to you and asked you for help or support, you would totally be there for me. And I really want to honor and acknowledge that for you. And I also want to say, I too did not feel supported by women.
And I remember going to SMU, and I was probably super dorky or something, but I didn't make it into sorority. And I remember-
RZ: I bet you were not dorky. I feel like you were definitely not dorky.
LO: I think I wasn't, I wasn't a girl's girl then. I think I hadn't come into my sense of authenticity and who I am.
RZ: You didn't have your voice yet.
I didn't have my voice and I didn't have like part of me is sort of my goofiness, my jump rope. And laughing a lot. And I didn't know necessarily maybe how that became one of my superpowers is being goofy and relatable and such.
So anyway, there was so many points in life. And even in raising money, the women who turned me down were all the venture, the women who found venture studios.
RZ: I talk about this with a lot of women.
LO: Yeah. That was Google. And so it was the women, the individual angel investors that really got behind me and believed in me at a time where we weren't, we hadn't launched, we hadn't anything.
And it gave me the strength and courage like, oh, I'm not alone. They believe in me. They know I can do this.
And it just kept feeding it along the way. And it's been a huge part of my fueling me through the harder times as well. Entrepreneurship, as you know, is so hard.
I don't care how much, how many connections you have.
RZ: Doesn't matter.
LO: It does not matter.
This is so hard.
RZ: The most famous, prominent, seemingly successful entrepreneurs I know are crying at home. They are.
They just are. It's just the ups, the downs, the triumphs.
LO: Lonely.
RZ: Yes.
LO: You asked me if I was in LA and I was like, no, I haven't left my house in San Diego for days. And I literally haven't left the house.
Right. And I'm here by myself on Zoom calls all day. And I'm like, but this is just, you know, and then I'll go to next week and I'll be around people again, but it's lonely.
And yet at the same time, I'm always focused on one, again, the gratitude of what I get to do, the lives that we're changing, the impact we're making, how I'm growing as a leader, the team and how we're coming together and then the different interactions and opportunities that I get to be part of.
RZ: And you should be so proud of the product. You should be so proud of the product.
And I think, you know, for my listeners, I think anyone who hasn't heard of Kroma, which is funny, because almost everyone I've mentioned it to, they're like, oh, Kroma. I love Kroma. Oh my God.
That's the kind of the immediate reaction, which is really interesting because it's very new still, in my opinion. And I think typically they're like Kroma. What's Kroma?
Oh, oh my God. I love Kroma. You know?
So it's a great, great thing. And I think, you know, listen, I think wellness, as you know, it's trendy, it's saturated, it's all the things, but Kroma really stands out, I think in a very unique way. And I think, as you said, it's a great gift for yourself, you know?
And I look at it, you know, and I know there's like cleanses and resets and the whole thing, but I also look at it as you can have Kroma every day. You can have the snacks and you can have the things, and I think you can create Kroma the way that works for you, you know?
LO: That's the design of it.
I mean, since I've been with Beaming, cleansing is what we think we want, detoxing, whatever it is, right? And I've always looked at it from more of a place of how can I get back in my body, feel good, take control, because we all lose control and we just come out from the holidays right now too, right?
RZ: This is the time.
LO: And I love food and I love good tequila or wine or whatever it might be. So it’s about finding a balance for you, but the real transformation happens in the everyday choices. And so while we have the Reset, we're not, we're not a cleanse company.
We have a really—it is truly a reset.
RZ: Right.
LO: It's just really healthy food. You're highly nourished.
I don't believe in starvation and deprivation. So for most people, it's more food than they can eat, right? Which is contradictory to cleansing.
RZ: Better though. Better because I think you get men that way too.
LO: The men love it. Obviously it's portable.
RZ: You can't starve men. You just can't.
LO: All the way you can customize it and add what you need. So if you had a big workout, because I want you to work out, I think different than like the other cleanses where you have to shut your life down because you can't think you're grumpy as hell. You're a raving bitch.
RZ: Oh my God. I'm not going to mention names, but I have friends that I'll be like, let's meet at Sunset Tower. And they're like, I can't, I'm not eating.
I'm cleansing. I'm so hungry. I have a headache.
I'm like, why are you doing this to yourself?
LO: Why are we doing this?
RZ: I don’t believe in that.
LO: And there's a couple of things, especially as parents, like what are we teaching our children, especially our daughters?
RZ: Yeah, of course.
LO: And then the other that I really has been a strong principle for me is I really believe, I want women to realize we don't have to starve ourselves to look and feel good in our bodies. And I think Kroma by just the pure design of it in that there's so much food, and yes, it's super foods and adaptogens and all these healthy things, but it's very, very culinary.
RZ: Yeah.
LO: It took three years making these products with my daughter and formulating with Dr. Will Cole and putting that influence in there. But like for me, it had to be the best of the best so that you crave it and that you want it.
And I always say, I care more about what happens after the reset because that's the awakening. That's where you get back in your body. You're like, okay, now I feel like me again.
Wow. I haven't felt good in so long. I didn't deprive myself.
My workouts were better than ever. I wasn't a raving bitch. In fact, I slept better.
My mind was turned on. And now I have all the favorite products, whether it's the beauty matcha or the porridge or the bone broth or the cranberry elixir, which I'm drinking right now, whatever it is, you have them to keep incorporating every day because that's when we take control of our health.
RZ: I love the matcha.
And I love the other one, turmeric.
LO: The golden milk.
RZ: Love that one.
Love that. Oh my God. It's so good.
LO: I live on this. I live on it because I love it and it makes me feel good, but I actually really, really, really love it. And I think that that's how health can be.
And I've never looked at it from a place of like a fad or a trend.
RZ: Right.
LO: It really goes back to me being a little girl saying I want to feel empowered with my health and my life mission has become helping others do the same.
RZ: Lisa, I love having you.
LO: I love being here.
RZ: I love having you.
You're such a badass. I love your energy. I loved meeting you this summer.
I was like immediately connected. I felt like I just, I think we hugged. I think it wasn't like a, hey, nice to meet you.
It was like a—I think we're supposed to hug because you're so cute.
LO: It was the best. It was.
I mean, I felt, I felt so welcomed by you and it was so fun.
RZ: Now I feel like I have to, like, I almost think in your next Kroma packaging reset, you have to put a jump rope. I do.
I swear. I think you have to do like a sheet jump rope with like little golden handles that like that wraps up and be like, this is how I started. This is what—this was my path to my like finding happiness in my body.
So like do this with your reset.
LO: Okay. I think you and I need to do some masterminding around this.
Well, thanks for being on. This was so much fun. I love talking to you.
Now you're making me want to go eat the like butter.
LO: Cookie butter? Yeah.
RZ: I’m like talking to you and I'm like, wait, should we go have some oats?
LO: I might have a bite of that right now. This was so much fun.
RZ: So much fun.
I love what you're doing. I'm so happy that we can do so many things together.
LO: And we're going to, we'll do a lot of cool things.
RZ: So many things. I love it. All right.
We'll have a beautiful day and let me know when you're coming up to LA and we can have a drink.
LO: I’d love that.
RZ: It's that time in the show when I answer to listener questions. So let's see what we have today.
If you're going to be shopping, what is your favorite department store to be in? That's a really good question, actually.
It has a really easy answer? Bergdorf Goodman? Which I don't know if it qualifies as a department store. It does because it's multi-category and all that, but there's only one. So it used to be Barney's. Rest in peace.
Barney's? Before that it was Jeffries. Rest in peace Jeffries. Yeah. So I would say Bergdorf Goodman.
I'm not a huge department store person. Certainly when I'm in Europe, I mean, Harrods and like Selfridges are just epically amazing. Europe, you know, certainly London and Paris really know how to do a department store like everything else. Okay.
Do your boys bicker more with you or your husband? Oh, with my husband for sure. I rarely, rarely fight.
I mean, I think the things I get strong on like screen time, you know, if they've had too much screen time, too much Fortnite, stuff like that. But other than that, I'm pretty chill with them, but I definitely, I get strong. I'd say my voice gets stronger and Kai definitely doesn't like when my voice gets stronger, but I would say they definitely bicker more with Roger because he has less patience than I do.
Okay. Don't forget to submit your questions for next week's episode. All you have to do is DM us your questions to @ClimbingInHeels pod on Instagram.
And I might just answer your questions. Thank you so much to Lisa for being on the pod today. Her Kroma products are so good.
I'm a huge fan and I'm not shy about the fact that I'm not someone that sort of does a lot of cleanses or resets or drinks, green juice or any of that. And I'm obsessed with her products. They're so good.
Even if you just want to keep it in your pantry and just like, you feel like you want something that feels good. And you know, her turmeric lattes, her matcha lattes, like they're so good. And the oatmeal and the cookie butters and you know, anyone who tries them loves them. The presentation of the product is beautiful.
She really does the work for you and it really just feels really good. I'm so inspired by her story. Truthfully, I think, you know, a lot of the women that I've had on Climbing in Heels were raised by single mothers.
And I think anyone listening knows that whether you are a single mother, had a single mother, have friends that are single mothers or siblings, it is one of the hardest jobs and incredibly hard, incredibly lonely, incredibly scary very often. And I think the fact that she has started two businesses under pretty tenuous circumstances on very little money, very scary times and being a mom to three kids, you know, it's really a testament, I think, to her work ethic and her ambition. So I've really enjoyed this episode.
I'm so inspired by her story and I hope you are too. Try Kroma. It's so good.
You will love it. Don't forget to write a review wherever you get your podcast. I love reading them and while you're at it, follow me on @RachelZoe and @ClimbingInHeels pod on Instagram for more updates and upcoming guest episodes and all things Curateur.
I'll see you next week.
The 5-Day Reset: Deluxe
OMG Cookie Butter
Super Porridge
Beauty Matcha Latte
24K Chicken Bone Broth
