The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast:
Healthy Cleansing w/ Dr. Will Cole & Lisa Odenweller
Dr. Will Cole & Lisa Odenweller On Safe Cleansing, Detoxing, & Setting Yourself Up For Long Term Health
Podcast Summary
Original air date: July 13, 2023
In this engaging podcast episode, join us for an enlightening roundtable discussion on the transformative power of cleansing with esteemed guests, Dr. Will Cole and Lisa Odenweller, the visionary Founder of Kroma Wellness. Dr. Cole, a prominent figure in functional medicine, specializes in delving into the root causes of chronic diseases. Meanwhile, Lisa Odenweller, with her profound understanding of food as a healing force, embarked on the journey of founding Kroma Wellness to revolutionize our relationship with nourishment.
Together, we explore the multifaceted realm of healthy cleansing, unraveling the motivations behind embarking on this wellness journey. Dr. Cole sheds light on the clinical investigation of underlying factors contributing to chronic diseases, offering valuable insights into the significance of detoxification for overall well-being. Lisa Odenweller, drawing from her extensive experience, discusses the profound impact of using food as medicine and how Kroma Wellness endeavors to reshape our perceptions of nourishing our bodies.
Delving deeper into the discussion, we uncover the essentials of safe and effective detoxification methods, providing our listeners with practical tips on preparing for a cleanse. The conversation expands to include crucial considerations before undertaking a cleanse, ensuring that individuals are well-informed and equipped for this transformative process. Dr. Cole and Lisa Odenweller share their expertise on creating sustainable lifestyle habits that complement the detoxification journey, ultimately leading to lasting results.
Tune in as we navigate the intricacies of cleansing, merging the realms of science and holistic wellness, to inspire and empower you on your path to vibrant health.
Transcript
Intro Voice: The following podcast is a Dear Media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now, Lauryn Evarts and Michael Bosstik are bringing you along for the ride.
Lauryn Evarts (LE): Get ready for some major realness.
Intro Voice: Welcome to the Skinny Confidential, Him and Her.
Lisa Odenweller (LO): If you don't have that why, it's really hard to commit. So I think you have to be very clear. Like, I want to feel really good. A reset can help you feel better fast because we want the quick fix. Now you're saying, wait, this isn't as complicated as I thought. Then you actually are in a position where you're like, okay, I can keep doing this.
Doctor Will Cole (DWC): And it's oftentimes I think, especially within the wellness world or the people that are slightly savvy about wellness, alcohol is one of those things that they don't want to go towards. The alcohol's a missing link for many people, but they wonder, why am I stuck at this plateau?
LO: It's finding that balance. Good food and social is really a big part of enjoying life.
Michael Bosstik (MB): Welcome back everybody to the Skinny Confidential, Him and Her show. Today we have some veterans of the show, Dr. Will Cole coming in hot again and our friend Lisa Odenweller from Kroma and today we're talking all about cleansing, safe cleansing, everything you need to know about cleansing.
There's so many misconceptions in the marketplace about cleansing, around cleansing, the healthy way to do it, the unhealthy way to do it and so we thought who better to bring on the show than Dr. Will who's an expert on this subject. And Lisa, who has built an entire business all around a smart, healthy, practical approach into cleansing.
LE: I am such a fan of Dr. Will. He has come on here multiple times and he just has the best advice. And then Kroma .
You guys, I drink their matcha every single day. It has protein in it, I have to tell you. I do two huge scoops of it with a frothed almond milk or frothed raw milk and it is the best snack. I also love, and Michael loves this too, her cranberry hydration powder.
Those are my two picks, you can't go wrong.
MB: On that note, let's welcome back to the show, Dr. Will Cole and our friend Lisa Odenweller to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show.
Intro Voice: This is the Skinny Confidential, Him and Her.
LE: You guys obviously, get very close to the mic like you're about to touch it.
MB: You don't gotta tell him. He does it every week.
DWC: That's right.
LE: I'm going to hop right on. No, I'm telling Lisa.
LO: I'm a virgin.
MB: Lisa's an old pro now, Lauryn.
LE: Speaking of virgins, let's talk about virgins to cleanses. Someone is a virgin. Cleanser. They've never cleansed. They hear the word cleanse and they immediately are scared off.
I have, I think, in my opinion, the two best people on this podcast right now to discuss cleanses. But first I want to go way, way back to when the word cleanse started trickling into goop, to all the places. Was it the juice cleanse that started off cleansing?
DWC: Sure, Juice Cleanse is probably, remember the Master Cleanse?
MB: Yep.
LE: Oh yeah!
LO: That was the first one. Yep.
DWC: Maple syrup, lots of lemon and cayenne pepper. Yeah, there's a lot, there were a lot of things that were probably late 90s, early 2000s that were a thing.
LE: And I remember I did this cleanse when I was like 20, where you would go to Rite Aid and you would get this jug of juice and it was called the Old Hollywood Diet and you would just sip the juice every couple hours.
LO: I'm sure the ingredients were really clean too.
LE: It was great.
DWC: The Old Hollywood Diet.
LO: Rite Aid especially, I'm sure it was...
LE: Yeah, I'm sure it was great.
LO: Oh, man.
LE: So, yeah, it started off with the Master Cleanse, then, when I first launched the Sunny Confidential, all the rage was the Juice Cleanse.
LO: Yeah.
LE: Did you do that, Lisa?
LO: Well, that's how Beaming started, was the Juice Cleanse. I mean, it was insanity, right? Do you remember the place in San Diego? You go get the jugs of juice.
MB: Juicers.
LO: And you drink like beets and carrots all day long and have a thousand grams of sugar. And all of our friends were doing it.
And whether you did the blueprint cleanse or any one of the other ones that were out there, you drink juice for three days, you felt terrible. You had no protein, no fat, no fiber. So no macronutrients. And that was supposed to do what? Lose a couple pounds? So, when we started thinking about like the sugar content of it and I started factoring all of it, it's 180 grams of sugar, 220 grams of sugar a day.
So that was for me coming into this space, I started with how do we redefine the cleanse? This isn't healthy. It's not teaching you anything. Nothing's changing. Maybe you lost a few pounds, probably not actually, probably really messed up your metabolism. And then on day four, you went right back to pizza and beer because you're so over it.
LE: Well, my favorite thing is what I used to do. This is really healthy. Dr. Cole's going to love this. I would do a cleanse, right before I was going to Cabo. So I would do olives or juice or whatever the fuck I was eating.
MB: And then just go down there and rage on...
LE: And then go to como and black out for a week.
LO: Because and then you had deprived your system. So when the alcohol hit you, you were really out of control. That's what I used to say, like my friends would party from Thursday to Sunday and juice fast from Monday to Wednesday. Even just where 13 years ago, when I decided to start a new way of cleansing with Beaming, it was through food.
So, been doing this kind of redefinition of the cleanse for 13 years and really focusing on nourishment. How do you eat food and make friends with food and nourish your body so that if you're not starving it, you're not depleting it, and then we're really changing habits and behavior, which is what Kroma does.
LE: From a doctor's standpoint, which cleanses are you saying maybe don't go towards? You don't need to, name brands, but just give us some general.
DWC: I think even that term cleansing, I don't even know everything that's out there because it's such a Wild West when it comes to cleanses and detoxes and flushes and all the things.
So I would say look out, just read ingredients of anything that you're doing, right? Look at quality more than anything . I think it's how it's used more than saying it's all good or all bad, right? Because we're talking about juice cleanses. Like with Beaming, there are better versions of that, but better doesn't necessarily mean optimal. And what's the long term? Like you said, is it to cleanse just to go and then binge on junk food? That's the antithesis of what we're trying to educate people on when it comes to sustainable health. So what we tried to do with Kroma is really empower people to make it a lifestyle, usually reset as a springboard, but then what's the long game instead of this disordered way of eating this-- what's called orthorexia sort of stress around healthy foods and then just go back and forth and back and forth. I would say look out for things that are quick fixes and really look for things that are more of a lifestyle.
LE: Orthorexia, you mentioned that. What is that? Give us like the whole, because Michael probably doesn't know what that is.
MB: No, we've talked about it. Isn't it when you become so obsessed with food that, and what you put in your body, actually becomes a disorder? It's like you can't, you're analyzing literally every single thing that goes in all the time.
DWC: Exactly.
Yeah. It's disordered eating around healthy foods and it's a complex topic, but, it's an issue and I don't think everybody that does juice cleanses or master cleanses are orthorexic. I'm just saying it's feeding into that diet culture, right? Versus wellness. True wellness.
LE: Okay. So let's say there's a girl, she's in Minnesota, let's call her Shannon. And Shannon wants to do a cleanse. I want to talk about, and really why I wanted to have both of you guys on, walk us through the whole roadmap and start two weeks before the cleanse. What are some things that she can do to prepare to have the most effective cleanse?
DWC: First of all, I would say, two weeks before, this would be ideal, so if Shannon's really up for lifestyle change, and that's part of my job with functional medicine, is meeting a person where they're at, and reading the room, and the science and art of all of this. But ideally, I would like Shannon to prep where she's at, where I would decrease what I call the inflammatory Core of Four.
These are the four additives or foods that are most likely to mess up your microbiome, mess up your metabolism, drive inflammation levels. So that's going to be gluten containing grains, specifically wheat. Look at refined wheat and how much you're consuming. Look at industrial seed oils like vegetable oil, soybean oil, canola oil, grapeseed oil maybe.
Added sugar. Which is probably the most, it's hidden in most things. Look at the grams of added sugar you're having in the day. Familiarize yourself with labels. And fourth would be dairy, conventional dairy. And there are better versions to all the things I just said. Like you can get like sourdough bread that might be a little bit more digestible.
You can maybe look at grass fed fermented dairies. But for the sake of simplicity, if she could, in Minnesota, decrease that inflammatory Core of Four prior, it'll make the cleanse, whatever good, well balanced nutrient dense cleanse we're talking about, it'll make it more easeful, don't you think, Lisa?
LO: Absolutely. No, and I think then you're really setting yourself up for long term success. Because if you're going to make the commitment to the cleanse, you really are looking for change.
DWC: Yeah, and you're leaning into it, you're not crashing through it and rushing through it. You're really setting yourself up for success, you'll actually feel better through it because you're going to start to balance your blood sugar, lower inflammation levels, so as you prep for the cleanse, it'll be a lot more effortless.
LE: Alcohol?
LO: It would be good to remove that a couple of times.
LE: Two weeks before.
LO: At least a week.
DWC: I would love that. I would love that for Shannon.
LE: If Shannon were to drink alcohol, which alcohol would you steer Shannon towards?
LO: I have my opinion. I'm going to let Dr. Cole answer.
DWC: I want to hear your opinion, but I would say, ideally prior, I would love if Shannon just did not have the alcohol because for a number of reasons, alcohol is a neurotoxin.
It messes up your gut microbiome. She will be prepping herself up for success. She will have a lot more of a blissful, enjoyable time. Because again, during the cleanse, we're assuming she's having this clean, nutrient dense foods that love you back anyways. So why not? But if she's going to have alcohol, I would say a low alcohol, dry farm wines would be wonderful.
Low alcohol, regenerative, biodynamic, mold tested wine.
LE: Just go buy the Giggle Water Box by Dry Farm Wines that I did with them.
MB: I imagine that most people are, a lot of people, are leaning into cleanses for weight loss, right?
DWC: Yeah.
MB: If you were going to convince me to do it, and I said, "Hey, weight loss is not my main concern," what would be the things that you would sell me on to and think about a cleanse?
DWC: It's interesting. I think you're right. A lot of people, it is weight loss, but there is a growing amount of people. It's more than that. It may be on the list of things they want to optimize.
MB: Sure.
DWC: But it's interesting, the motivating factors, at least with my patients. It's things like fatigue.
MB: And the reason I mentioned it to your point, not to interrupt, is because I think when people, a lot of people want to hear cleanse, they think it's just weight loss. And I want to educate people on that. It could be a lot of other things that I'm sure you're going to talk about.
DWC: Yeah, exactly. And for people that think it, we're just talking about weight loss, it isn't. It's about getting healthy to maybe lose weight, not trying to lose weight to get healthy. Like it may be a natural byproduct for some people. Most of my patients actually, it's down low on the list, if it's on the list at all, to lose weight.
It's more about feeling great in their skin. It's about this reconnecting how they want to feel in their own body. And feel at peace with their body. So it's fatigue, it's things like brain fog, it's digestive issues, bloating. That's kind of the top things I would say.
LO: Inflammation in the body. You can feel it.
DWC: Yeah, the commonality. The commonality between all of these things is inflammation. So they're looking to, they may not word it like that, but that's what they want, and that's what they can get.
MB: And so the mechanism of the cleanse is that basically when you do it, it just gives your body enough time to rest and recover and clean out all the stuff that maybe shouldn't be in the body.
DWC: Yeah, you're avoiding things that are most likely to drive inflammation. You're nourishing your body with nutrient dense foods that actually help to support healthy, balanced inflammation levels. Those are the two main prongs of how you're helping your body, and you're giving your body a break overall.
A few days or however long you're doing it, you're giving your gut a reprieve to start to repair. And especially if you're implementing things like intermittent fasting, that's even more enhancing these sort of autophagy and cellular renewal pathways that we all have the capacity to do if we give our body the chance to do so.
MB: Yeah. And sorry, the reason I bring all this up, and I think an easy example to talk about, is if you were somebody that consumed alcohol every single day, you're constantly poisoning your body, body and mind. It's the same thing with poor food choices, right? I just think people don't correlate them in the same kind of way because everyone knows alcohol is a stimulant that has a negative effect to the body and the brain, but they don't realize it.
Maybe it's a seed oil or maybe it's the gluten or maybe it's the added sugar that's doing the same thing. You just don't feel the immediate effects the same way you would with alcohol.
DWC: Yeah. And it's oftentimes, I think, especially within the wellness world or the people that are slightly savvy about wellness, alcohol is one of those things that they don't want to go towards, right?
They're easy to say, these foods are inflammatory. I'll have less of those. The alcohol is a missing link for many people because they keep it in and, but they're wondering, why am I stuck at this plateau? And, definitely, pragmatically, there are better versions like that wine I just mentioned, but still I would say taking breaks of it periodically would be good for many people.
LO: And I want to just come back a little bit just on how this all kind of comes to be, because I think it's really about what's your why. Why are you doing this? Is it? And I think that's, what's going to set you up for success. If it's really about weight loss and it isn't really about overall health and wellness, it's going to be really hard to take that two weeks ahead of time to ramp towards that cleanse or reset that you're doing.
So I think you have to be very clear, I want to feel really good. All right? And they're either have a trigger because they don't feel good. So now they're looking for a solution or they just want to optimize because they really want to take care of their health. If you don't have that "why" it's really hard to commit.
I find just having done this for so long, the hardest thing that people have to give up is alcohol. And so that's the one thing that I think. But what I love about it is if you can get through a couple of days, it's amazing what happens so fast. Your body responds by day two, by day three. Yeah, it might be a little bit uncomfortable, but your body will communicate and it's got a feedback loop.
It's going to tell you, it's going to show you that you feel better. You're going to feel that you feel better. You're going to see that maybe inflammation has gone down. Your brain's gotten better. Maybe you've slept better. It might be a little bit uncomfortable, but what I love is how a reset can help you feel better fast because we want the quick fix.
But it's now you're saying, wait, this isn't as complicated as I thought. And so if it's done right, then you actually are in a position where you're like, okay, I can keep doing this. And that's where we've really approached it was we can give you the tools to keep continuing to live this lifestyle, but still make it work for you.
Because I think if it's really restrictive, then people want to... they fall off. It's too hard. And if it's too complicated or if the mountain's too high, people... they don't know where to start.
LE: What's the right duration of a cleanse? Is there ones that you can do for two weeks? Is there ones you can do for five days?
What are the pros, the cons, all the things?
DWC: There's studies that show that even after a few days, two, three days, the microbiome, all the bacteria in our gut health as a whole, it's where 75 percent of the immune system is. Inflammation is a product of the immune system. You can make some significant changes in how somebody feels.
In two or three days. These are just things like the brain fog can start to lift. The energy can start to increase. The inflammation levels can start to lower. That's the starting point. So it depends on their why. What are their goals? How long will this take to get to your goals? And that's why I see something like a reset or the Kroma reset is a springboard.
Let's teach people how to eat in a way that loves them back and then teach them ways to keep this going because. If you're talking about things that have taken years to get to where they're at now, it's not going to be solved in five days, but at least want you moving in the right direction. So, cleanse is specifically using it as a Reset.
I would say four or five days probably be the minimum for most people, but really, I'm an advocate for making your life a cleanse, more or less. Like what are things you can do sustainably that love you back, that are in alignment with your goals?
LE: That's exactly what I try to do. I try to make a cleanse, like a micro cleanse every day.
And Lisa and I talked about this. I'll switch my matcha out or I'll add the cranberry hydration or instead of a meal, I'll do the bone broth and maybe some of the Super Porridge. I'll implement the cleanse throughout my day, even if I'm not doing it the whole day.
LO: And that's exactly the design of it.
That's how I live, right? And we talked about it. You do the program, you find the things that you love, but then you can keep incorporating them. And again, it's meeting you where you're at, finding the things that are going to simplify your life, make you feel really good.
We're all really busy, so we don't necessarily always have time to find healthy choices. So the fact that it can sit in your pantry really helps too, but, and that it can go with you anywhere. And then if you want to go out for a nice dinner because that's part of life too, it's finding that balance. And because I think that good food and social is really a big part of enjoying life.
LE: I also think when you're a high performer, or you really want to lean into your success to make a decision of what to eat is...
LO: It's overwhelming.
LE: It's overwhelming. I'm just like, show me what to eat.
LO: Well, as a single mom with three kids living in two cities, running a company, I don't have time.
I know what to do. I don't have time to make a big meal or a big salad or whatever, even go out and get food. So being able to have those options that are super simple and easy to make, it takes me two seconds. I'm all about efficiency.
LE: My daughter asks me for two things every single morning, a vitamin and coconut water. And the coconut water that I give her, no surprise here, is Harmless Harvest Organic Coconut Water. It is the best. First of all, I noticed that she'll ask that because she wants to be replenished in electrolytes, and no surprise, this specific coconut water has tons of electrolytes, so it keeps you cool.
So when Zaza is asking me for this coconut water, I know she needs electrolytes, it's such an easy way to get it in. And it tastes so good. I'm a huge fan of this brand because there's only one ingredient and I am all about the ingredients. I think that it's a great way to sneak in something healthy to a smoothie or just like giving it to your kids.
Even my baby loves it. He drinks it up. He's one year old. He's obsessed with it. I love it when it's pink. Sometimes it turns pink. It's so much fun. And then another way that I use this coconut water is like in a cocktail. So we had people over for Fourth of July and we did an electrolyte replenishing cocktail with tequila.
It was so good. Anyway, Harmless Harvest has the best advice. It's simple advice. Stay hydrated and mind your business. Go to HarmlessHarvest.com and use promo code SKINNY for 20 percent off your first order. That's promo code SKINNY. Go to HarmlessHarvest.com and use promo code SKINNY for 20 percent off your first order.
That's promo code SKINNY. Or you can use their helpful store locator to find the best location for a retailer near you.
I'm going to put you on to some clean makeup brands. I first got involved with clean makeup when I was pregnant. I wanted to switch everything up and I thought that it would be the perfect time to find exactly what I liked. So obviously I went to Sephora because they have a wide variety of clean makeup brands.
And these are three products that I found that I know you will all love. The first one is you have to try Lawless, okay? It's the Forget the Filler Lip Plumping Line Smoother. It's like this tinted balm and it just gives you like a rosy pink lip, but it's not overbearing. I love this during the day, during a workout.
It smells right and most importantly it's clean. Another product that I've been loving that is clean is Mycosis and it's a super creamy brightening concealer and I use this under my eyes and in the Inner corner of my eyes and I'll almost use it to sort of pinch my nose in. So I'll put it like right by my eye and my nose and then I'll line my nose with it and then do it under my eyes.
And then the last product that I would tell you to check out is by Merit. My friend Gracie Norton told me about this one. It is a bronze balm sheer sculpting bronzer. I like it because it's not a powder. I like things to be wet on my skin. And this is perfect for drawing contour lines in, and like I said, it's clean makeup.
You can go to their site and you can just see all the clean products, super easy. To learn more, visit sephora.com/clean. That's sephora.com/clean.
One thing that I love about my multivitamin is that I know what's in it. It has traceability, so I can go to the site. It's ritual, and I can see exactly what's in it. I also know that it's USP verified, which is super important, meaning you know what's on the label and what's in the formula. It's soy free, gluten free, vegan friendly, and formulated without GMOs, and it tastes like mint.
I've been using this multivitamin for literally the past three years. I took it when I was pregnant and after my pregnancies, and I take it now. And it is the Essential for Women 18 Plus Multivitamin by Ritual. One great thing about this specific vitamin is sometimes I'm low in vitamin D, and this is going to increase the levels of vitamin D by 43%.
Another thing I'm low in, which causes inflammation, if you don't get it right is Omega 3 DH. And Ritual actually increases the levels by 41 percent in just 12 weeks. I am just a fan of the Ritual brand overall. I also take their protein powder. I think it's a brand that really pays attention to ingredients, which is very important.
Ritual is all about hot data and stone cold facts. Get to know your nutrients on a deeper level with 20 percent off during your first month. You can visit ritual. com slash skinny to start ritual or add Essential for Women 18 Plus to your subscription today. You can visit ritual.com/skinny to start Ritual or add Essential for Women 18 Plus to your subscription today.
That's ritual.com/skinny.
If someone were to do a cleanse and let's say they're doing it for five days, the first question everyone asks is, "Am I going to shit my pants?"
MB: That's the first question?
LE: Yeah, everyone wants to know if they're going to shit their pants.
LO: Do I need to run to the bathroom?
MB: That wasn't my first question.
LE: That wasn't your first question?
MB: No.
LE: Now that I bring it up though, is it your first question? Yeah.
MB: Well, now that maybe you've implanted it in my mind...
LE: You don't want to shit your pants on a cleanse, right?
MB: No, I don't want to shit my pants ever, even if I'm not on a cleanse, to be honest.
DWC: I didn't realize that was number one question.
LE: Now everyone does want to know though. Are you shitting your pants?
DWC: Not if you're doing it right. I mean, to me, that's not normal.
LE: Unless you have colonoscopy. I didn't shit my pants.
MB: Are we speaking from experience?
DWC: I'm asking for a friend.
LE: Juice cleanses do sometimes tend to get things going. You could see why I would ask that question.
DWC: Okay.
LE: Not very common, but okay.
DWC: Yes, okay, so I could say this. Sometimes juice cleanses, I have seen this sometimes with juice cleanses, where people are having lots of sugar, lots of, specifically, higher FODMAP juices, which these are fermentable sugars, and like the celery juice, people are really into that with the medical mediums and that conversation.
MB: Is that real? The celery juice? Everybody's talking about the celery juice.
DWC: Whole foods are generally good. Celery juice, has some nutrients, right? And I think what it is... is you're getting some electrolytes, you're getting some minerals, getting some phytonutrients from the celery juice, and they're just-- it's giving your body a break from all the junk that people are having. So that's a move in the right direction. But again, because it's better, does it mean it's optimal?
MB: But, people are going to the store and like getting the pre made stuff. That's different.
DWC: When he has people drinking like bucket loads--
LE: I did it. Yeah.
DWC: You did it?
LE: I did it.
DWC: It's a lot of celery juice that could probably make people some crap their pants. I would say that could be because it's so much fermentable sugar and a lot of people have SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, which they're having lots of this plant food.
It can do it. So that may be what the people that are asking you about going pooping their pants during a cleanse. Maybe it's that's why.
LE: Okay, so you're not going to poop your pants.
LO: No, that would not be when you're on a cleanse.
LE: Could be any cleanse. What if someone gets hungry? What if they say I'm hungry?
DWC: The great thing, I mean, do you want me to take this?
LO: Take it.
DWC: Yeah, so I would say that's a major facet of what we did with Kroma is bio individuality because there are people that have higher metabolisms, they're working out more, they have more of a demand calorically, so they can do the athletic track, they can do the track where they're adding protein and salt.
We don't want people to be deprived. Does that mean, at the same time, I want people to get curious with what it actually is. Is it, I'm stressed out, so I want to go for this food, and that's where the mindfulness approach comes, because sometimes it's out of habit, or out of stress, that we're used to grabbing that food.
That's the science and art of this, is that people are going to start to learn about that body talk, that what their body's telling them to do. As a general rule, if they're hungry, they can eat, and most people don't even finish. The food that's within the cleanse in and of itself.
LO: Yeah. I mean, you're getting 10 things a day, right? And so when you've done it, have you finished?
LE: I'm not like a hungry when I've done it. I'm just asking if someone was hungry.
MB: But is it the worst thing if somebody's hungry for a bit?
LE: Here he goes. Go off. Here he goes.
MB: I'm not going to go off.
LE: I knew you were going to say this. He's going to say it.
MB: I just think that we... I don't know.
LE: I know what he thinks. I think it can be gluttonous sometimes.
MB: I think people baby people, it's like, okay, you're a little hungry. Tough it out for a minute. Tough it out for 24, 48 hours.
LO: Drink a glass of water. You'll be good.
DWC: You're right. That we are lacking a certain level, I'm not speaking for everybody, there's a lot of people where we are just so comforted at all times that even a lack of not having access to food right in front of us all day long is scary. So yeah, that's the introspection that I want people to have their own sort of, realization of what's my relationship with food?
Like, how am I using food? Am I actually hungry or just bored? That's a major come to Jesus moment that many people have to have about when it comes to food in the relationship with their body.
MB: Well, people come on here and they go sometimes I get hungry in the middle of night and I have to get up and eat.
And I'm like, I know you don't have to get up and eat. You just sit there and go back to bed. I'm going to be hungry until the morning. That's what people did for thousands of years. I wake up, I'm hungry. I go, shit, I'm hungry. Well, I'll guess I'll eat in the morning.
LE: Michael gets mad when I eat in the bed.
MB: No, that's a whole different story.
LE: Sometimes I eat cookie butter.
DWC: What are you eating in the bed? Is it like crummy?
LO: Cookie butter.
LE: Just one scoop of cookie butter. I just want to sit in peace for one minute and eat my cookie butter and he can't stand eating in the bed. He's very clean and precise.
LO: There's probably worse things, Michael.
LE: Yeah, there's worse things.
MB: No, no, no, she's missing-- I don't like crumbs in the bed.
DWC: I don't think the cookie butter doesn't have crumbs.
LO: I mean, it might, you know.
MB: She's not being the full truth here.
LE: I'm not a messy eater. I have some.
MB: You guys saw earlier today what she was trying to make on this table?
LE: Alright, what happens to someone's mood when they're cleansing? Are they going to be, Michael would love to know, are they going to be a bitch?
DWC: Not if they're nourishing their body. Look, there's a lot of psychological, mental, emotional attachments people have with food.
So that's why I think a mindful approach and the why is so important because it's like they're north and they know why they're doing this. I think that they're crashing through it and not really setting themselves up for success. Even a nutrient dense, clean, well formulated cleanse, could irritate some people who are addicted to foods that they're not having.
So yeah, it could. I think one of the biggest things you can do is, and we put it within the Reset, is electrolytes, is sipping on electrolytes throughout the day. Which, that will curb a lot of cravings and balance blood sugar, help brain function, so make sure you're having your sodium, potassium, magnesium minerals throughout the day.
LE: I completely agree with you because I noticed I was getting headaches before I implemented electrolytes. And also I do the sauna and the infrared and weight lift. I think electrolytes are non negotiable.
MB: Yeah.
LO: Absolutely.
DWC: And there's electrolytes in here. You can also add some added sea salt. I love Element too.
You can add some extra electrolytes if you want, if you're sweating a lot doing sauna, working out, you can always add above and beyond too.
LO: I think that when the grumpy sort of raving bitch kind of scenario, it exists, can't say that it necessarily exists with Kroma, but if you're depleting yourself and you're having, if you're doing something that's six or 700 calories, you're not going to be happy.
So I think that is a truth, right? And there are programs out there that are very minimal. If you don't know your why going into that, you're going to be a raving bitch. You're definitely not going to exercise. You probably are not even able to function because your body is going through a different process.
That is not what we're trying to do with Kroma. And we really are trying to set you up for long term success and give you the tools to thrive by putting good nutrient dense foods in your body, not deplete. And I think the emotional side of it is, I mean, sometimes they're emotional, because we do have such an attachment with food, and then it's like what do you mean I can't eat what I want? And so sometimes people will go through this discomfort of, but I want to grab that handful of chips and I've committed and there's a frustration. You get over it pretty quickly because you feel so good.
LE: What about if someone has disordered eating in the past? I always wonder about this.
Has someone struggled with anorexia or bulimia and then now they're in therapy and they're trying to heal. Is a cleanse right for someone like that?
DWC: It depends on where they're at in their recovery and I would always recommend getting the go ahead from their eating disorder specialist that knows their case.
But again, if we're focusing on nutrient dense nourishing foods, Especially somebody that's in recovery. I see many people that actually feel so good. When you get your blood sugar balanced, when you actually get your brain working well, that's very conducive to continued recovery. It's when blood sugar is all over the place and your brain is starving because you're not eating well, it can make a lot of people with eating disorders really white knuckling it because their body's physiologically dysfunctional.
LO: Yeah, good point.
DWC: Yeah.
LE: Let's say Shannon does the cleanse, she feels great, she does five days, she's coming off. What do you do the morning you're coming off? What's the exact way to come off a cleanse, not in the Lauryn-Bosstik-Blackout- Cabo way?
LO: Again, you're coming off feeling clean and feeling good.
So hopefully you're feeling inspired as well. And so there's a couple of key rules of thumb, I think for sure you want to stay away from the gluten and the sugar, right? For as long as you can, continue to stay with whole foods. Keep eating a lot of plant foods, but also lean proteins.
I wouldn't just go and have a big sandwich. I wouldn't have a go big bowl of pasta. Wouldn't run and go have tequila. You want to keep the clean going. With Kroma, you're probably going to still want the porridge, you're probably going to want the matcha. You are going to want to have the bone broth.
So you're going to start to incorporate those hopefully into everyday life. And then you're going to start to ease back into your regular food regime. I think the problem that people have on other programs is that they just go from zero to a hundred. So they did it. They were miserable. They felt really depleted.
And then the next day they're out having French fries and oysters and champagne. I think there's such extremes when you do an extreme program and the way this one is, is it's just so easy. So then you just keep incorporating it.
LE: What are some stories that you guys have seen of people being really successful?
DWC: I've seen so many. This is basically all that I do, occasionally talk about it on a podcast, but I mean, mostly that's 10, 11 hours a day I'm getting to see people reclaim their health. One person that always comes to mind, and this is a sort of an extreme example, but she always comes to mind, because she was in her 90s, and she was in a wheelchair when I met her. And it's like what we do to seniors, I guess, in our society, they're just taking all the medications because someone with a white coat said, take the medications. And she was miserable. Her husband wheeled her into the clinic and we started implementing these tools of foods that are nourishing, foods that are nutrient dense, resetting your body.
Which we extended her quote unquote "cleanse", but using the aspect of making your life a cleanse but using the principles that we talk about with Kroma to springboard for the rest of her life. She was able to come off with loads of medications. Her doctor called us up and said, yeah, we admit like we had her kind of over medicated, but she was able to reclaim her health.
She's walking with a walker. And it's what she said that makes me think about this 12 years later, she said, "I was planning my funeral, when I met you. Now, I'm planning vacations with my grandkids."
LE: Wow.
LO: That's so cool.
DWC: And how many people that we love just think that's their best they can do?
Their fatigue, brain fog, anxiety, depression, digestive problems, it's just their lot in life, but they don't realize how resilient their body is when you give it the chance to do so.
LO: And it'll bounce back. So I want to add on a couple stories to, like even my parents. They're in their 70s and they did the reset.
And they're healthy and they exercise every day and they eat really well, but when they did the reset. They each lost five pounds, which they got to a weight that they felt really good. They were exercising every day, but, what was so amazing is that all the inflammation in the body went away.
So they had no arthritic pain for the first time in 10, 15 years. They had no arthritic pain and they slept better than they had. They slept through the whole night. That's amazing.
LE: Well, the sleeping also has to do with the magnesium that you have in there, which is so smart. She has a packet of magnesium powder in there.
I think that, to me was like, wow, she's really trying to do a whole 360 approach.
LO: Yeah, it works.
DWC: And magnesium deficiency, when I look at labs, it's deficient in almost everyone. And it's responsible for our GABA pathways, or basically our calming mechanisms. It's an electrolyte that many people need to support their parasympathetic nervous system.
Yeah, it's a game changer for many people.
LE: Is there a specific magnesium?
DWC: I like blends of magnesium. I like magnesium threonate, glycinate, bisglycinate. I think a blend over from supplementation and from food is advantageous.
MB: You take bisglycinate and threonate.
LE: Is that good?
MB: Yeah, because I know you're wondering what we're taking with that.
DWC: Are you filling up a capsule or pill box?
LE: Yeah, no, every night he makes me a vitamin water.
MB: But then we take some gaba too at night. But I was going to ask, you specifically, when you see people outside of magnesium deficiencies, when you look at inflammation in the gut , are there certain things that you're like, they're the main culprit for this inflammation?
Maybe alcohol aside, because we know that one, but are there certain foods or things that people are doing that is a root cause that is causing this inflammation in everybody?
DWC: Yeah, I would say it's a combination of the inflammatory core things plus alcohol. When I meant gluten containing grains, there's industrial seed oils.
Sugar, Dairy. That's gotta be, most people, a combination of those things. Day in, day out, cumulatively. That's the biggest problem. And then the stress. And I think unresolved trauma up there too of things that can perpetuate inflammation as well.
LE: This is so random but one of the main questions that I get asked on Instagram Story are what Zaza's sheets are. So they're by Quince and why I like this brand is it's timeless, it's classic, but it doesn't break the bank. And they also have 100 percent European linens under 50 dollars. So if you want something that looks super high end, for your kids, but you also don't want it to break the bank, I would definitely check them out. The specific sheets that she uses are the European Linen Sheet Set, and I like the color in sand. They also have other colors, though, that I'm not mad at. They have white, and then they have an ivory that's amazing. And if you want to go darker, they have a washed olive.
They have Twin, Full, Queen, King, California Queen. Zaza has a Twin, like I said, European Linen Sheet Set. I'm impressed by the quality and classicness of the sheets and style, but I'm also just really impressed with the price. Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices.
They're also eco friendly fabrics and finishes, so you can feel good about getting high quality items that last longer. Upgrade your closet this summer with Quince. Right now go to quince.com/skinny to get free shipping and you get a 365 day return on your next order. That's q u i n c e dot com slash skinny for free shipping and 365 day returns.
quince.com/skinny.
MB: We spend a great amount of time on this show talking about how to take care of our bodies, how to take care of our minds, what foods to eat, what foods not to eat, just overall how to be a well person. One thing we don't talk nearly enough about is how to take care of the pets in our life, which is why I love the farmer's dog so much.
So many of us, like I said, are putting so much thought into what we put in our bodies, but so little thought into what we put into our pet's bodies. This is why partnering with The Farmer's Dog has been critical for Lauryn and I, because we are so passionate about taking care of our pets, our furry friends, the ones that give us the most love.
Why not love them back with the best food possible? What we love about the Farmer's Dog is it's real food, it's real fresh, it's healthy, it's made with whole meat and veggies, gently cooked in human grade kitchen to preserve the nutritional value. The pets absolutely love it. We've seen a huge change in overall health and happiness for our pets.
Our dog, Boone, used to have weepy eyes. Those are completely gone and he's just thriving. For those of you wondering, is this affordable? It's very affordable. You can get it for as little as 2 dollars per day. It's all pre portioned. The meals arrive in ready to serve packs, conveniently delivered, on your schedule, convenient and fresh.
Dog people across the country have ordered millions of meals from The Farmer's Dog. It's never been easier to invest in your dog's health with real fresh food. So check them out, get a massive offer, get 50 percent off your first box of fresh healthy food at thefarmersdog.com/skinny plus you get free shipping just go to thefarmersdog.com/skinny to get 50 percent. That's thefarmersdog.com/skinny. Go to thefarmersdog.com/skinny to get 50 percent off your first box plus free shipping. That's thefarmersdog.com/skinny. Enjoy.
I got my blood work done. I get them once a year. And not to be arrogant here or anything, but it came back and the blood work looked fine, right? And the vitamin levels look fine.
LE: It's arrogant about your blood work?
MB: No, no, because I didn't want to be like, I have great blood work.
DWC: The demigod status.
MB: It looked good, but I felt something was off still and I was like, what's going on? So I went and got a gut test and did a stool thing. I had a problem with my gut.
LE: He sent his poo in.
MB: So I had to do all this stuff to fix it. If I didn't go that extra step to figure out what was going on in the gut, you would have looked at my blood work from my general practitioner
and, "Oh, everything's fine." And I think a lot of people go through life like that as "Oh, okay. Like I'm in the levels, everything, nothing alarming." And they don't do the next thing. Because they didn't offer it. I had to seek it out.
DWC: Yeah.
MB: That was a whole journey to fix my gut.
DWC: There's so many people that are like, Okay, I know something's off here. So if the labs are coming back quote unquote normal, either you're not running the right labs, or you're not interpreting the labs appropriately, or both. It's a great example.
MB: But 99 percent of people just think, "Okay, well, the labs are the labs."
LO: I'm in the norm.
DWC: Even though I'm having digestive issues, or inflammation, or brain fog. Yeah, that's where more comprehensive labs are helpful to shed light on it.
LE: A lot of people Right now, especially, want a free lunch, and what I mean by that is, they want to do the Ozempic shot, the WeGovie shot, you guys have heard this, and a lot of people are doing it and saying they cut sugar or they're on a low carb diet. I went back to LA and I'm like, what's going--
MB: Everybody in LA cut sugar all of a sudden.
LE: Everyone's like, I cut sugar. Okay, what's really going on? What is you guys opinion on that? Because, listen, it seems great to be able to just Do something and lose all this weight, but I feel like it's a free lunch, and I think that we haven't even begun to see what is going to happen with this.
LO: It scares me, but I want to hear Dr. Cole's response.
DWC: I think could it be a short term tool for some people? Possibly, but I don't think you're going to inject your way out of a poor diet. So could it be someone that gets all like this foundational stuff underway and this medication, which I would not advocate for, but I'm saying for someone that's choosing to do it, looks at the risk factors, are they a good candidate for it?
Could it be take them to the next level a little bit? Possibly, but it's not a long term solution. What's the end game? That's what my mind goes to.
LO: And then I want to ask you, like the metformin craze, is there a side effect to this? Yeah, you look better, but what happens when you stop?
And is there any other concerns that, you know, from any of these?
DWC: And oftentimes metformin or glucophage is paired with these other injectables. The goal is to modulate insulin and leptin. There's a vast majority of people that have insulin resistance and leptin resistance. There are just more effective ways, in my opinion, without the potential risk factors that come with these medications.
But look, low doses of them, short period of time, could it be a needle mover for some people? Yes, but ultimately in functional medicine, what's the most effective that's the least amount of side effects and what's the most sustainable solution for you? I mean, metformin doesn't have tons of side effects.
It does deplete methyl donors, meaning B vitamins. It can raise homocysteine levels. So there are some side effects to it and that can make you shit your pants . Glucophage can for sure.
MB: Listen, I'm not coming from this from a medical standpoint, but I'm thinking about muscle mass in general. I feel when you drop weight that fast and you don't factor in the loss of muscle, and then you come out of that and you're like, okay, now I've lost the weight, but I've also lost the muscle. It's so hard to build that back up, and muscles obviously going to help you burn fat, stay in shape, and all those other great things, to your point. I don't know about the other, the medical entrepreneurs, but I feel like from a muscle standpoint, it can't be good for muscle growth and sustainability.
DWC: It's ultimately like a bypass. Can it help some people? Yes, but it's not the foundational stuff that's we're plaguing so many people when it comes to losing weight.
LO: Well, it freaks me out because my friends will send it around like, "Oh, everyone's losing this weight. And so and so lost 30 pounds. I'm going to try it." It's the self prescription that freaks me out.
MB: But that's what I'm saying. If you drop 30 pounds that fast, you got to factor that a lot of that's going to be your muscle.
LE: Another thing no one's talking about is Dr. Dennis Gross was on this podcast and I asked him this question.
He said, when you lose weight so quick, it makes your face sort of sag down and you can't just gain weight to have that plump back up. That's not how skin elasticity works. So people are also not thinking about the quick weight loss on the skin of the face and the knees and the boobs. When you lose weight that quick, it sags.
If someone is insulin resistant, What can they do that's natural?
DWC: Well, look, it's upwards of 70, 80 percent of the United States is insulin resistant to some degree. And it's a spectrum , from mild insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, all the way to type 2 diabetes, and PCOS, and other types of hormonal problems that are driven by insulin resistance.
Going back to what we said earlier, decreasing those inflammatory Core of Four will do a lot to start to balance blood sugar levels and get you feeling well. There are herbs that can help with, blood sugar balance. A lot of the herbs that we use here, adaptogenic herbs, are really good supporting blood sugar.
Cinnamon's a great way to support blood sugar. Milk thistle is a great way to support blood sugar. So there are more natural ways. Chromium's another one.
LE: If someone wants to do this cleanse, who has the best results? Is there a certain kind of person? Is it someone who is busy and they can implement it easy?
Is it someone who's not so busy? What have you seen the best results?
LO: I think the people or the early adopters are the ones who already get it, right? They're the ones that are already used to doing things like this, and this is very familiar. And that's great, and they have great results. The ones I get most excited about are the ones that are stepping in for the first time.
LE: So like your mom and dad?
LO: Yeah. They're healthy, but like for them to have those results and completely transform how they think about food and how they start their day, we hear those stories all the time, and the outpouring of I've tried everything or I didn't even know where to start.
This was the one thing that finally got me to make a better relationship with food. It helped balance my adrenals and my hormones. It helped them feel good in their body maybe for the first time. So talk about a motivation. You don't want that to change. I love the stories of the people who, whether they just are overwhelmed and don't know where to start, this is so easy that that's just a really easy way to launch that.
Or the people that are in between and they go YOLO all the time because they have such a busy life, they don't have time to think about it, and they can't do these extreme programs because they can't shut their life down for five days. I think it really fits for all types. You can have the extreme athlete too, who wants to improve performance.
I love the stories of the people that this is really transforming their lives.
LE: A lot of celebrities are big fans. I've seen this on a lot of celebrities Instagrams, Instagram stories. Has any celebrity come out and actually talked about their journey with this?
LO: Yes, a lot of them do. I think this is something that they do anyway, right?
This is part of being a celebrity, I guess? I think what they say is what we hear from everyone. It works in that I feel really good. And if they needed to lose a few pounds for the red carpet, great, but they feel really good and they've got the products to continue to incorporate. I would say there's a lot of celebrities that do it. And it's great because they help to tell the world. What we really want to do is just get it out there and have more people get to experience it.
LE: I am such a fan that I harassed you again to come back on to talk about cleansing tips and tricks with Dr. Will. I have your products, when I'm not cleansing all the time. The ones that I would start with you guys, the matcha is superior. It is so fucking good. The matcha is the best matcha.
A little bit of almond milk, froth it up, it's the best. And then the Cookie Butter. The Cookie Butter is sick. I have it every single day. I have a scoop every single day and it has like goji berries in it. So it's chewy.
LO: It's so good, right?
LE: It's so good. And then I love the Super Porridge.
Sometimes if I'm doing a really hard workout, like if I'm weightlifting, I'll add a scoop of protein powder in there. It has protein in it, but if I want like extra protein and I don't want to taste like chalky protein. It's so good. So I'm a big fan.
LO: And the bone broth.
LE: And the bone broth. And I will be doing the cleanse before Cabo, but I'll give it a little space after this episode.
I'll give it a little space. I'll give it a week, right, Dr. Will?
DWC: You could do it in Cabo if you want.
LE: No, no, no, no, no, no.
LO: Let's be realistic here.
LE: Chips, salsa, guacamole, margaritas in Cabo.
LO: But you know what? So when you go on the vacation though, when you feel really good, you're probably less inclined to just lose it.
The wheels aren't going to come off.
LE: I know, but I can bring some of the stuff on the flight, and I can like...
LO: Exactly. And when you're there, like I just went to Cabo twice in the last couple of weeks, and I had my porridge, I had my matcha, I had the bone broth, I still did it, and then I enjoyed the latter parts of the day.
LE: You gotta have chips. You gotta have chips. Can we do another giveaway? I didn't ask you this off air. Is that okay?
LO: We should totally do that.
LE: Okay. What can we give away?
LO: Let's give away... we had so many people that wanted it last time. Let's give away three Resets.
LE: Three?!
LO: Yeah, we're going to do three.
LE: Oh my god, you guys. That's so nice. Okay, we're going to give away three Resets. All you have to do is follow @KromaWellness on Instagram and tell us your favorite part of this episode on my latest post at Lauryn Bosstick with Dr. Will and Lisa. Definitely listen to Lisa's story, too. She was recently on the podcast and she tells her whole background, and right now we're podcasting with Dr. Will alone so we can get more details. Where can everyone find both of you? Pimp yourself out.
LO: I'm @LisaOdenweller on Instagram and of course Kroma Wellness.
DWC: @DoctorWillCole on Instagram. DoctorWillCole.com. I'm trying TikTok out. I don't know what the heck I'm doing, but I'm trying it.
LE: You just have to throw yourself out there. It's like a cleanse.
LO: I'm not there yet.
LE: Just try it not there.
DWC: I follow you on TikTok. Are you on TikTok?
MB: Not really.
DWC: Well, you need to get on.
MB: I know. If you don't plug your podcast right now, I'm going to just lose it on you. Plug your podcast right now.
DWC: Sure, I just assumed everyone knew. My podcast is called The Art of Being Well. Every week, new episodes.
MB: That's right.
LO: I was on that one too. We had a great conversation on that one.
LE: Yes, it was great. Thanks for giving us all the tea. Literally.
LO: Thank you. So fun.
LE: I just drank three Cranberry Hydrations and Matcha. Cheers!
DWC: I'm glad you didn't have a matcha explosion.
LE: That's been my day so far. I didn't have a matcha explosion.
LO: We saved her from that.
LE: Also, do you want to do a code?
LO: Oh yeah, let's do the Skinny20.
LE: Skinny20, you guys.
LO: Go get 20 percent off.
LE: And if you're going to start with one thing, get the matcha.
LO: And that's 20 percent off everything. Anything that you want. Go shop. Lots of options.
LE: Go have fun. Thank you guys for coming on.
DWC: Thank you for having me.
LO: Thank you so much.
Shop This Blog
The 5-Day Reset: Deluxe
The simplest and most delicious way to detox, rejuvenate and energize. Recommended for first-timers.
OMG Cookie Butter
The perfect pre- or post-workout (or anytime) snack. You won't believe it's this good for you.
Super Porridge
Move over eggs & hello Super Porridge. Fuel your body with this power-packed superfood breakfast.
Beauty Matcha Latte
The ultimate matcha with collagen, beauty mushrooms and superfoods like ginger and turmeric.
24K Chicken Bone Broth
Liquid gold in a cup. Nourish and heal your gut biome with this ‘natural immunity medicine’.
Cranberry Hydration Elixir
Elevate hydration & add electrolytes with this delicious, light elixir. Just the right amount of sweet.